Tell us a little about yourself and how you came into the geology and wine space.

I started in geology as an undergrad at UCSB. Originally, I was a marine biology major and had great dreams of coming from the Midwest to study sharks, stuff like that. I was very biology focused, and it was in an early intro to geology class that I got really into it. I had been won over by geology. My dad is a geologist, and two of my older brothers are as well. [Growing up] I had no interest in geology or rocks— I was not attempting to follow in their footsteps at all—but I took this class and it felt like my eyes were opened in a new way to the world around me. Everywhere I went, everywhere I drove, you could see things about the earth and you could think about the earth changing over time, and it was amazing to me.

I ended up staying in Santa Barbara to do my master’s degree in geology. While finishing the degree, I began working for Seth Kunin [of Kunin Wines] in the tasting room. It was all over for me. When I got into wine, I was enamored by the whole thing. I loved everything about it and loved that everyone in the wine world was as fascinated about the geology world as I was. Shortly after I met Seth, I met Raj, and it snowballed.

The Transverse Ranges, the Santa Ynez Mountains that separate Santa Barbara from Santa Barbara wine country, are a very globally unique phenomenon. Typically, we see mountains that run parallel to coastlines, and typically those mountains will separate that coastal influence from the weather and the climatic patterns inland. In Santa Barbara County, we’re at a weird place along the San Andreas Fault. While we’re not on the San Andreas Fault, but because of the movement of the fault, there was a block of land—the Santa Barbara Block—that got snagged along during millions and millions of years of motion. It created localized compression, which means we got the upward squeezing, the uplift, of these mountains going perpendicular to the coastline. That’s why these mountains face south in Santa Barbara, but also open up the Santa Ynez Valley [to the north and west] to the ocean. On the far western side, the Sta. Rita Hills has access to all this maritime climate, and as this moves inland it warms up. That’s how we get this crazy range of grapes that can grow well in Santa Barbara County, and how we get a very cool climate in Sta. Rita Hills in a place that we associate with something warmer.

You’ve spent a lot of time studying the different terroirs of Santa Barbara County. What should wine drinkers be thinking about when it comes to the geology of the Sta. Rita Hills?

It’s always hard to separate geology and climate when we’re talking about wine, of course. We know how close the Sta. Rita Hills is to the ocean; how cool [climatically] it is, that position on the western edge of the Transverse Ranges, but to me those things are interlinked. The climate is what it is because of the geologic factor that surrounds it, because of where we are with this crazy, twisting and turning Santa Barbara Block. That createst the setting for the Santa Ynez Valley and the Sta. Rita Hills; how the Sta. Rita Hills can exist as a growing region and how Pinot Noir and Chardonnay can grow in this region because of the geology. I like to start there, because the first thing you want to talk about is a rock type, but I always remind people that it’s bigger than a rock type, it’s bigger than soil, it’s really about the place and this immovable thing that dictates the climate. I like to place ourselves in this bigger geologic picture to begin with.

Of course, the rocks themselves are very impressive and very striking. When you think of the turn on Sweeney Road and seeing those diatomaceous cliffs, that’s the mental image that should come to mind right away. The Sta. Rita Hills is a unique place where you find these striking white rocks that you’re tempted to call limestone. It’s fascinating, we’re in the world of Pinot Noir and Chardonnay where [with Burgundy] you think of limestone, but the fact is the diatomaceous earth happens to be here, in this climate that’s so appropriate to Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.

What makes the southerly Santa Rosa Road vineyards—Sanford & Benedict, Rinconada, etc.—unique, and how does that translate to the character of the wines they produce? How do you distinguish them from wines from the actual Santa Rita Hills in the heart of the AVA, and from the Purisima Hills to the north?

On the south side, we see a lot more diatomaceous earth and we see a lot more of the bedrock influence of diatomaceous earth. It’s part of the Monterey Formation, a hugely important rock formation throughout Santa Barbara County for reasons that go beyond wine. It’s home to a lot of oil reserves and so on. Basically, on the south side of the Sta. Rita Hills we’re getting more bedrock influence, more chert-y influence and shallower soils that are right on top of that dramatic white rock that we’re familiar with.

This south side of the Sta. Rita Hills [the Santa Rosa Hills] is north-facing, so it can have a strong sense of austerity all the way through the wines. Wines along the Santa Rita Hills are south facing and the wines feel a bit sunnier/warmer, but as they’re still on diatomaceous earth, they can have a nice lean core. The north side of the Sta. Rita Hills [the Purisima Hills] is a lot of sand, so the wines are often broader—which can be a good thing (think light, ethereal lift when done well)—or lacking structure if they get too ripe, which can happen in the blink of an eye on sand.

What are your thoughts on picking up minerality in a wine?

I think that I would say that minerality is very real. I think we do sense the presence of different terroirs—specifically of different soil types produced by different rock types—on our palate. I think this concept that’s not super relevant anymore—are we tasting the elements or minerals?—that’s been debunked, [for example] we’re not tasting limestone because we’re picking up on calcium carbonate that was taken up by the plant and dumped into our glass. I think that’s too literal a perspective of what we’re tasting, but you can certainly pick up the impression of minerality. It is almost always perceived as a texture as opposed to an actual flavor, but there is a minerality you can find from a single soil type in wines from different regions.

Many of our tasting room guests are familiar with your podcast, Roadside Terroir. Given the podcast’s reach within the wine community and your acclaimed work in wine regions around the world, we feel humbled that you chose to highlight Santa Barbara County in season one. Why?

The simplest answer is that Santa Barbara County is my home and it’s very special to me. It’s the region that opened my eyes to the world of wine and I think it deserves every bit of attention that it gets. (And there’s probably not enough yet.) I think there’s more to learn, the geology is incredible and it’s where I fell in love with geology. It’s a formative place for me and it’s been special to share that with anyone who listens.

It was also during the first COVID lockdown when my friend and I found ourselves with a lot of free time on our hands, and we wanted to utilize that time to make something about this place that we found very special. We found we were able to do something much more immersive and personal than we would’ve been able to create during normal times. Because we had the time and there was this time to spend with our winemaking heroes, we got to really listen. That was a big thing we learned early on. To sit with people for hours and really listen to what they were saying become so, so important to what we did. We wanted to share these experiences, which was a big part of it. How special they were.